Is Fedor the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world?
This week, The Court of MMA will look into the case of whether or not Fedor Emelianenko should be considered the number one pound-for-pound fighter in the world.
Presenting the argument against the notion will be MMAMadness.com’s Associate Editor Cameron Gidari.
The idea that Fedor Emelianenko can still be considered the number one pound-for-pound fighter is laughable.
Proponents of Emelianenko love to trumpet his dazzling 30-1 record, and are quick to point out that his one loss came from a controversial cut stoppage.
In the pound-for-pound game, though, it’s not how many times you win, but who you beat. Look at Emelianenko’s last five wins and you’ll see what I mean.
He beat Tim Sylvia, who was just knocked out in nine seconds by an ex-boxer pushing 50.
He beat Andre Arlovski, who displayed his own glass jaw by getting run over by Brett Rogers one fight later.
Hong Man Choi? He sports an impressive 2-2 record, with one of those wins coming against Jose Canseco. Yes, the baseball player Jose Canseco.
Mark Hunt’s record is 5-6. Matt Lindland is fighting at middleweight.
The bottom line is that Emelianenko has not had a difficult fight in years. No fighter with a recent win over Hong Man Choi can be considered the best fighter in the world. As the saying goes, if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.
You compare the difficulty level of Emelianenko’s record to those of some other p4p contenders, and the results aren’t even close.
Georges St. Pierre’s six-fight win streak has come against mostly top ten talents (excluding BJ Penn, who would give most welterweights trouble).
If you’re going by record alone, which Emelianenko defenders have to, Miguel Torres’ 37-1 (including 22 submission victories) is even more impressive.
Say what you will about Anderson Silva’s recent performances, but he has dominated the likes of Rich Franklin, Dan Henderson and Nate Marquardt.
If Emelianenko had fought and beat Josh Barnett, it would have gone a long way to helping his p4p argument. As long as he and M-1 continue to sidestep the real heavyweight competition (read: UFC), then his p4p argument will never hold any water.
Defending the notion will be MMAMadness.com’s Feature writer Gary Wimsett (an actual attorney).
Typically, I do not engage in the “pound-for-pound” parlor game, because I am a serious man and life is too short for games. I relented on this occasion because of the recent firestorm in the MMA press regarding contract negotiations between Zuffa and my pick for pound-for-pound king – Fedor Emelianenko.
I have not seen the numbers offered to Emelianenko and neither have most of you, so take a deep breath and relax. When it makes financial sense for this deal to happen, it will happen. I am confident, however, that the nature of the negotiations suggests that, like me, powerful players in Zuffa understand and appreciate Emilianenko’s unique, fearsome and extremely marketable abilities. Without Emelianenko, most serious observers of the sport know that the man wearing the UFC’s heavyweight belt is holding it for the “Last Emperor”.
Of course, there are many great fighters to consider when discussing pound-for-pound rankings. George St. Pierre is without rival in his weight class. Anderson Silva will be extremely difficult to beat in his. Then there’s the truism that the greatest living fighter is that as-yet-undiscovered champion toiling away in obscurity in a nondescript gym in some forgotten corner of the globe.
It pains me to know that scores of new MMA fans are coming to our sport during the Brock Lesnar era. I do not have anything against Mr. Lesnar per se. I think he is an outstanding athlete. At this point in his career, though, he is not a mixed martial artist as I define the term. He is very strong and very physical and he is able to
impose his ill will on most heavyweights.
Most, but not all. As sure as Lesnar was destined to punish Frank Mir with his “lunch bucket”-like fists, Lesnar would lose and lose in shocking fashion to a gentleman by the Russian Military Experiment – easily the greatest pound-for-pound mixed martial artist in the sport now and arguably the best MMA fighter of all time. Lesnar would not leave the Octagon with thoughts of Coors Light, Bud Light or even of getting on top of his lady friend for a few extra rounds. He would get exposed and he would get hurt. Sadly, so many MMA fans have never seen Emelianenko fight. Fedor destroys people. Big people, small people and everyone in between.
If Emelianenko ever signs with Zuffa and fights in the UFC, the wider world will be treated to his unique brand of controlled, explosive violence. Despite the opinions of so many breathless UFC fanboys, however, Fedor does not need a UFC contract to cement his legacy as one of the greatest fighters of all time. He has been proving it on the world stage (far from the eyes of the American fight fan to be sure) for years.
Sometimes he fights in a silly-looking Sambo uniform and it is hard not to snicker (from a safe distance). He competes in and dominates judo tournaments. He showcases his ferocious MMA skills in rings in the Far East against opponents you do not know. Every once in a while, he is paired against a name most of us recognize, like Andrei Arlovski. He knocked Arlovski out in mid-air.
He brutalized Tim Sylvia in 36 seconds. Along the way, he has compiled a record of 30 wins and 1 loss (a controversial stoppage due to a cut). He knocks some of his opponents out, he submits more of them, and he wins decisions when he is forced to go the distance.
Fedor Emelianenko is the best fighter you have never seen; he is the best pound-for-pound MMA fighter in the world; and, he is the best all-around MMA fighter who has ever lived.
There you have it! Now it’s time for you to be the jury and voice your opinions on who has won this case below in our comment section.
I agree with cam on this one. You can’t say he’s the best p4p because he’s only beat 1 legend in this sport and that is big nog. He only has 1 loss because he avoids the top level heavyweights and instead fights freak shows(hong man choi, and zuluhino) and old roided up ufc champs(kevin randlemann, mark coleman, tim sylvia, and josh barnett had he fought him) so until he comes and wipes out the entire heavyweight and light heavyweight divisions he will always be #3 on my list behind anderson silva and gsp
I don’t think Fedor avoids fighting anyone. Theres not much as many big name heavyweight outside of the UFC for him to fight. The reason why he hasn’t came to the UFC is because of the can only fight in the UFC rule. Hes the Russian Sambo champion and wont give that up just to fight in the UFC. It’s not like theres a lot of top heavyweight in the UFC for him to fight either. Brock, Couture, and maybe which Mir should up are the only top heavyweights. There could be a couple rising stars such as Carwin but hes beat Cro cop, Nogueria, and Herring. Plus until Sylvia and Arlovski were considering top guys until they got knock out by no names, which was after they fought Fedor.
yeah he aint in front of gsp and anderson silva.i have it;
anderson silva
gsp
fedor
penn
i think shogun or machida may even take his spot in 3rd place half way through 2010.
he has done well signing with strikeforce;
overeem
rogers
werdum
they would be great wins and theres up and comers thaty strikeforce can put against fedor.
1-GSP
2-Anderson Silva
3-Fedor
4-Machida
5-BJ Penn
this is based on quality of opposition too…that’s how I support my GSP pick
1.Anderson Silva
2. GSP
3.Fedor
4.Miguel A. Torres
5.Penn
Sorry J, I gotta put Anderson ahead of GSP simply cuz of the manner in which he has defeated top rated fighter and he’s broken records. Fedor’s decision to fight in the minor leagues,IMO, put him outta contention for the top spot and he hasn’t fought top quality fighter in forever. It looks like it’ll be a while before he does now too, 3 decent fighters in strikeforce and after that who?
He would beat the stew out of Anderon and GSP therefore he is #1.. Simple..
It’s not that simple. How many times has Fedor fought in different weight classes? If it was that simple, it’s more than just he’ll kick his ass and that’s it. Anyone can get lucky, not that Fedor would get lucky. You have to consider what they’ve accomplished,who they’ve fought,how they fight. People compile impressive records fighting nobodies or lay on people fight after fight all the time. Not to say fedor is that type, but Anderson Silva has done more against top quality opponents. We can’t keep living in the past when it comes to Fedor. Just because he destroyed the entire hw division in Pride back in the day doesn’t mean he’s still on top now having fought only has beens and freaks. I gotta agree with Cam on this one.
No shit redcoat how much does fedor out weigh gsp? wait until he comes to the ufc where he can’t get lucky punches off the ropes anymore.
Fedor would put a prison style mouth on the curb beat down on anyone who steps to him.. He’s only 230ish.. Forrest walks around at 240.. Were you at Anderson? That’s what I thought…
Every time this Anderson wanting to box RJJ thing come’s I have to show this.. Anderson is a gimmick RJJ.. Isn’t that copy-write Infringement? Hahaha….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWnMXzgeZo
my picks
1 …Anderson Silva
the guy bounces to higher weight classes and destroys them after cleaning out his division
2 .. GSP
unfortunate for him A Silva set the bench mark ..GSP cleaned his division but but would have to start fighting top fighters in the next level
3 ..Loyoto Machida
How can you vote for him here the guy never lost a round especially now showing the knock out power against some pretty tough guys
4 …BJ Penn
Another guy that cleaned out his division and fearless to challenge anyone …just keep your mouth shut when you take on more then you can chew
5 ..Fedor
At 230 he can beat anyone unfortunately for him that is light for some of the new heavy weights, he cleaned out the pride division but this a new era and he has to fight Brock to move up the latter.
a.silva likes the striking style and wants to beat one of the best at that style.i think he will be in over his head in a boxing match.fedor fought the best at pride,affliction and will fight some top class opposition at strikeforce.
If your boy fedor is 230ish why doesn’t he come fuck with the lhw’s? he is russia’s bitch they keep him from going to the big show because they know he’s at risk which is why they sent him to strikeforce. Anderson would put a muay thai clinic on fedor the only chance fedor has when he faces top level fighters is if he can sub them
Russian bitch? damn that’s bold boy… Last time I checked Fedor never started crying or got submitted like Anderson…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=267i7rKeECA
and he sure has never got his face bashed in like Matt Serra did to GSP…
ha ha red you even put the video in there to prove your point.i think that was abit harsh raging bull.the reason i say that is strikeforce dont have chumps to face him and he does want to fight in the ufc and the reason is this sambo and co-promotion stuff.i think fedor can lose in strikeforce and that will hurt his image more than losing in the ufc,arlovski for instance has just been knocked from being number 3 hw in the world to number 15.i would love to see anderson vs fedor,i dont have a clue who would win,probrably fedor because he always finds a way.fedor bring the heat he recives on himself because of something he belives in,shame dana cant stop sambo like he did affliction and elite xc.
Blah blah red all you have is your little youtube highlights you must be proud to show those off like you actually did somethin. The reason anderson and gsp have loses is because they don’t back down from fights like fedor. And that was the craziest shit ever done and i guarantee that would never happen again. Dana was gonna let him do his little faggy sambo competitions and pay him crazy money to fight brock and randy on a 2 fight contract how is that not avoiding the big show?. Why should he get to compete in sambo? demian maia can’t compete in the worlds whenever he wants why should fedor get special things. Daley if fedor got beat in strikeforce by anyone that would make my year because then i could tell everyone look at the supposed p4p king whose a terminator now
I’m sorry dirty d, but strikeforce has 3 decent hw’s and that’s it. Top class I don’t think so, werdum-couldn’t hack it in the ufc, Brett Rogers – who?, Overeem- a champ who doesn’t defend his belt & kneed cro cop in the nuts. If fedor wants to prove he’s the best he has to go where best are- ufc. If Forrest can cut down to 205 then Fedor should have no problem making weight to fight Anderson. Ufc was willing to let him fight his sambo,which supposedly was their biggest issue before, & they came up with more excuses. I use to tout this guy as the greatest mma fighter ever, but not with that bitch move that was pulled. He’s still the beat hw ever, but p4p Anderson hands down.
you guy are kidding yourselves. you really think gsp is above fedor P4P? really? he just smashed two top ten heavyweights in the first round over the course of just over the last year. he’s been beating top competition since 2003. sure there was a stretch where he wasn;t fighting the best of the best, but he beat them, and now he’s beating the best of the best again, and still making it look easy. the only fighter in the world that belongs above him is MAYBE anderson silva.
cisco…you criticize fedor for not fighting in different weight classes…but you put gsp ahead of him. that makes no sense. besides, it was just over two years ago that gsp got ktfo in the first round. remind me the last time that happened to fedor. also, you say strikeforce has only 3 decent light-heavyweights…but apparently the ufc’s bet heavy-weight is brock lesnar…record 4-1 HA. he barely beats couture after arguably losing the first round to a 45-year-old man, then beats frank fucking mir who beat him the first time, and all of the sudden fedor HAS to face HIM to be the best? i think you must have it backwards.
raging bull, you say fedor’s only chance against top-flight fighters is to sub them, well tell that to arlovski. and if he subs them, he still wins, and convincingly too. why would he fuck with light-heavyweights? if their so threatening, they should man up and move up.
just because he isn’t in the ufc doesn’t mean he can’t be number 1. he has fights with top 10 ranked alistair overeem and brett rogers staring him right in the face. not to mention fabricio werdum is there too, and he was top 10 till the fluke ko loss to dos santos.
and arny are you crazy???!!! lyoto machida and bj penn above fedor??? lyoto machida beats rashad evans and all of the sudden he’s top 5 p4p? he hasn’t even defended his title yet! and bj is my boy, one of my all time favorites and I will always support him, but to say he’s cleaned out his division is a bad joke. jens pulver hadn’t been top 10 in years. joe stevenson, great fighter, but never had a chance. sean sherk, great fighter, never had a chance. kenny florian, great fighter but waaayyyy overrated coming into that fight, never had a chance. you call that cleaning out a division? first of all, the ufc’s lightweight division is weak, it lacks MOST of the world’s top lightweights. second, bj has spent his career in weight classes where he didn’t belong, he has great wins there, but he belonged at lightwewight. let’s see the ufc bring in hellboy hansen, jz, crusher kawajiri, shinya aoki, mizuto hirota, satoru kitaoka, shaolin ribeiro, and eddie alvarez, then we can talk about bj cleaning out his division and being higher up then fedor on the p4p list.
fedor cleaned out his division, not bj.
P4P ranking doesn’t mean crap! who cares
Sure Fedor has not fought the top contenders in years but you still must give him credit for who he has beaten. I doubt he even cares if he is rated on anybody’s p4p list. If anyone thinks Fedor is afraid of fighting anyone then they are sadly and retardely mistaken. If it wasn’t for the dummies he has for management holding him back he would already be the UFC champ. While fighters like Silva and GSP may or may not consider Fedor top p4p they would never be foolish enough to slam him publicly and call him scared or shitty like some of you noobs.
The fact of the mater is.. we are all grown up and Rage is a spoiled child.. he likes to spout off at the mouth.. if we were all in jail Raging Bull’s sandwiches and cookies would be mine… Game Over.. I’m big dangerous, your just a little vicious…. I’ll take you cigarettes and your milk too while your at it..
I dunno how most people fight but this is the way I fight… Guns up..
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=7370419
I posted another link.. proving points.. breaking bitch fools down for the count!!!
Red if were in jail you’d be to busy getting your ass beat for tryin to be like crocop. You just can’t accept that your 2nd favorite fighter is afraid of the ufc it must be really hard for you to deal with don’t worry he’ll retire soon with his bullshit wamma and strikeforce belts and that’ll be it. Like always red you can never respond inteligently. Kimura you always make good points and i believe that if fedor was in the ufc a few of the lhw’s would go up weight to challenge him
You got some good points there kimurafan
Sometimes I think the whole mma world revolves around the ufc.
I always ranked Fedor as one of the top three p4p fighters along with shogun.
but this last stunt with the ufc, M1 and sambo BS ticked me off.I really wanted to see him in the ufc.
To make you happy I’ll move Fedor to 4th ahead of Penn.
Till Machida looses a round never mind a fight he will stay at #3 he just didn’t beat Rashad, he took out the African assassin at the top of his game, undefeated Silva, former title holder Penn Franklin and ortiz he won all those fights with out loosing a round, not taking a serious blow, and he not winning by decisions anymore as we saw in his last two fights….closed on that one.
Red go take your meds ….no we are not all in Jail
Leave Rage’s milk and cookies alone and go straight to your room no TV for you
cisco this is a reply to you about strikeforce not having world class fighters.werdum left ufc for running his mouth over brocks title shot,werdum can beat carwin and valasquez,rogers could probrably give them a good scrap and overeem would beat the shit out of brock,tko him.they can sign more hw in the future,im sure they will sign another 2 or 3 good ones not to mention new guys from smaller shows coming up by the end of the year.ufc has some very good heavyweights but there is more than plenty roaming around elsewhere.
No I wasn’t criticizing him for not moving down, it was a response to what red said about Anderson not moving up to fight. If you go back and read the previous ones you’ll see what i mean. I’ll put Anderson ahead of him everytime simply because of the fact that he challenges himself with tougher competition and destroys most. The guy wants to box rjj for Christ sake!! One if the best boxers of all time! Gsp ahead of fedor, yeah I’m sticking with that one. He’s not backing away from anyone, he’s not saying he wants to fight the best and going to a 2 bit organization. He’s taking on all comers NOW, not in 2003, the present. Arlovski, Tim Sylvia top ten? Yeah. Timmeh just got clobbered by a 50 year old ex-boxer & arlovski got clobbered brett rogers, who? Did this guy even work out for that fight?Overeem? Please, he has to resort to kneeing cro cop in the nuts! He’s a chump.Werdum, ok he’d beat some in the ufc, but never be a champ. As for Lesnar, I’ve always said fedor would whoop his ass if they fought now, but there’s definately better challenges for fedor in the ufc. They don’t have resort to maybe they’ll sign someone, they already have PLENTY o challenges for “the lost emperor”.
Sorry dd Overeem beat Brock… is that the same Overeem that shogun took to school and beat the shit out of ..uhum not once but twice. ya right
I think Fedor was scared to sign in the ufc because of the mauling Brock gave Mir .. just my opinion of course
Where is Sparky anyways …we need a Brock nuthugger on here
If Fedor looses one of his next fights …more then likely Rogers I said IF … his stock drops dramatically.
And that my friend …with Gina and Babalu loosing tonight, shamrock near retirement,Chung lee career change, Nick auditioning for the Cheech and Chong remake could spell the end of strikeforce
OH… id get my ass whipped? relay? hahaha Game Over
http://judicial.smith-county.com/JudicialSearch/Scripts/UVlink.isa/smith_2/WEBSERV/CriminalSearch?action%253Dview%26track%253D122371
That was when I was a young buck… no summer camp over here haha
I can post my brother, all my home boys.. some people go to college.. well we go jail…. Say my name.. I’ll bring the place down like there’s weights in the ceiling.. already..
redcoat,carrying blades dont make you hard.it means your bought up round a shit area and been dragged down into the pointless shit thats gone on until your life ends early.you not think your life is worth more than that?
Most people would be ashamed of having a criminal record
It is one of those things that can haunt you for the rest of your life and nothing to be proud of. That providing of course that the circle of friends look at that as some sort of achievement in some adolescent code of bravery.
Sorry dude all the folks on here are true mma fans and knifes,guns and brassknuckles and no respect for an opponents life is the sign of a true coward.
Maybe you should hang out with the likes of rage,dd,cisco, kim and look up to the wisdom of mu_shin as a mentor instead of your homie loosers whose path will lead you to inevitable fate of your best friend.
Seems to me you are reaching out here and laying it all on the table … do the right thing dude and turn it around
Lots of good perspectives on the Fedor situation, lots of emotion and passion surrounding recent events.
None of what has transpired changes what has gone before. The fact that a lot of people are angered that Fedor chose not to sign with the UFC does not change what he has accomplished in the ring.
The argument I would make to the people who insist that Fedor has not fought the best competition and that there are superior heavyweights out there is to give us the facts. Show me a heavyweight who has a better record, who has fought better opponents, and who you feel has demonstrated the kind of strength, conditioning, and technique that would overwhelm Emelianenko.
There are other credible heavies out there, and there are some good matches to look forward to involving Fedor. All the P4P rhetoric is just that: no promotion offers one dollar or a title to a mythical P4P champion. I agree, it’s an interesting topic for debate, and obviously a lot of guys have th,their opinions, but I tend to reserve my energies for what can be settled in the ring.
Personally, I don’t see anyone involved in Strikeforce who represents a credible challenge to Emelianenko. I think he would destroy Overeem, Werdum, and Brett Rodgers, but hey, that’s just my opinion. I think the best legitimate challenge to Fedor is Brock Lesnar. Okay, he’s only 4-1, but Lesnar has demonstrated in the cage that he is posing technical problems that no fighter is currently prepared to offer solutions to, and I think Fedor could have those answers. Once Emelianenko fulfills his three fight obligation to both Strikeforce and M1-Global, maybe we’ll finally get a chance to see the actual current heavyweight championship. Maybe not. Perhaps we’ll just have to be happy with Fedor fighting in his fiefdom, and Brock fighting in his. I just want to see more and better fights, and new talent coming in to the sport.
I do look up to Mu Shin and I don’t need any your approval to do so.. I was just stating a point.. Lot of people talk about this and that, well I live the shit I talk about.. If your talking about a fair fight IDK what that means anymore.. Is there such thing as a fair street fight??? Tell that to my best friend who took his shirt off to box a guy and got shot 6 times.. Only you can’t because he is no longer with us… My homie loser friends? I roll by myself.. I don’t even know why I bother anymore.. sometimes it seems like I’m the only one who lives in the real world.. I’m not proud of having a criminal record.. I just got caught a few times and plead guilty cuz I was and did my time like a man and didn’t snitch like most of these people out here.. Don’t ask me shit about so and so cuz I wont ever snitch…
MATT ROBBINSON their i said your fuckin name what’s gonna happen? not a damn thing so why don’t you talk your bitch made wanna be gangsta ass to another mma site. I grew up in a shitty area also full of of asian gangs does that mean i get to act like a fucking retard?. I hate dumb mother fuckers that think because they go to jail with a misdeamnor it makes them 50 cent guess what your just a dumbass that got caught. You just set mixed martial arts back 5 years with your comments. Guns, knives, and brassknuckles? i can already tell your a coward from the way you fight. ”i can post my brother, all my home boys” post their records for me to see just cuz im curious now.
True there mu_shin ,,, Nice to see you make an appearance on the board finally.
Where the heck have you been ..counting jellybeans I hope?
p4p is just a hypothetical guesstamit question of “what if” a fighter was as big as that fighter “who would win?”
It sure is base on what he has done lately example one of every one’s favorite Miguel Torres sure fell off the charts after his last outing
the p4p fighters we seemed to pick are all champions in their weight divisions primarily the ufc, which is in my opinion the “big League” The ufc is not like boxing there is no dodging the next best opponent in line for your belt, so you are fighting the best.
And when you clean a division out and start going up in weight well you are that much better especially the way Anderson has been doing. Sure gsp has had a couple of losses but he avenged those quickly Seira once and Matt Hughes twice and in devastating fashion.
I’m not saying anymore about Machida you know how I feel about him.
So by not fighting the best in line by not signing with the ufc Fedor looses creditability with me, and you are so right Mu_shin Brock and Fedor would be a dream match.
that aint the real world redcoat/matt,life is a gift and we should all embrace and enjoy it together.some choose to end someones life because they walked on there land or looked over at them or they have bout 5 or 6 of them on 1 person.its sick and twisted and it’s a shame there is people like that.thats why we have brave police officers and prisons.i try and say this to you redcoat as i dont belive you are one of those scum bags who do that shit,you just got to make the best of a bad hand you got dealt.i got a good idea,you should save up your paypacket and in 3 months go to spain in europe and work in bars and clubs.it will be winter but partying never stops.just full of hot chicks every night.now thats what i call better,they speak english too.
Yeah…. Mma. Can we get back to that? Mushin, great post as always. I agree that his past accomplishments are freakin great, he’s doing what Anderson is currently doing now, except Anderson is doing so in two weight classes. They’ve cleaned out their respective weight classes, Fedor did it in Pride back in the day, but it’s been a while since he’s fought quality opponents.No hw has a better record, true, but IMO it’s seems he’s dodging ufc at all costs. It used to be the Sambo excuse, ufc conceded, so now it’s co promotion! Jeez, what’s next? All yellow M&Ms? It’s getting old. He is the best hw in mma, but by dodging top competition his stock, in my eyes, has dropped. The P4P agruement will never be settled because it’s based mainly on opinion along with records, but the opinion part is what drives the arguement. Mushin, I really doubt we will ever see Fedor in the ufc as he is part owner of M-1 and we all have heard by now that the ufc and M-1 cannot seem to come to terms.Arny thanks for the compliment. Red, I know you got your issues and sh!t happens in life that makes life seem like it FTW. I grew up in a city between South Central & East LA, so I know where you’re coming from. You can’t let that sh!t drag you down into a life that you can’t be happy in. I’ve lost friends and been down that road, outta control, but I got my crap together and life might not be perfect, but it’s a hell of a lot better than constantly watching your back. Let it go, make your homeboys that aren’t here anymore proud and do more with your life. I’ve never talked smack to you & I’ve had your back a few times, but you you need to look inside and make amends with your inner demons. There’s nothing you could’ve done to change what happened to your homeboy, nothing. Everything happens for a reason & sometimes we don’t see it, but it does. Live a good life brother and life will be good in return. Just don’t expect a perfect life, expect the ups and downs.
Sorry guys I contradicted myself and ranted, but I felt I had to.
Oh and I agree with dirty d, except don’t go partying in bars. They’re nothing but trouble, but if you’ve got nothing holding you back(kids/wife) then go for it. Go see the world. It’ll get you away from all the bs.
True, P4P is a very subjective topic, which will never be even close to unified, much like the divisional rankings themselves. however, divisional rankings are certainly easier to support than P4P. I mean, a guy dominates his divisional peers, he’s the number one guy in the weight class. if he dominates to a point where there’s no one there left for him to prove anything against, he’s a P4P great. it doesn’t mean he needs to move up or down in weight, it just means he has to keep fighting the best around. if he can move up or down and remain effective in a fight, that’s great, but we can;t just sasy that because anderson can do that, everyone else has to just to protect their legacy.
and as for fedor not signing with the ufc, people are going wayy overboard. because fedor didn’t sign with the ufc to fight brock, that hurts his ranking? that’s ridiculous. brock could leave the ufc to fight fedor if he wanted to prove he’s the number one, but nobody’s calling him out for that. fedor has been the number one, and who’s the best dude brock has ever beaten? sure brock is one of the top dudes right now, but no matter what way you look at it, guys like fabricio werdum and alistair overeem are a bigger threat to fedor on paper than brock is, even though we know fedor will maul them, that’s really the way it is. fedor just smashed two top heavyweights in a row, even if sylvia embarassed himself afterwards. i mean, if a single win over top 5 competition was enough to put lyoto machida in the number one spot at 205, then how can we criticize anything about fedor’s career at all?
Good post Kim
yes a single win for Machida over top 5 competition true.
But he had to take out some top guys before getting that shot (ortiz and a then unbeaten silva) and do it in convincing fashion.
Fedors last two fights yes they were great and yes they were both former ufc champs …BUT they both got taken out by less know and old boxers in less time then fedor took them out ..
And Dana stated that he didn’t want either fighter back in the ufc,
Before the modern day ufc pride was the big league in my opinion ….. yes fedor was the best p4p fighter followed by shogun and wand 3rd
For me kimura, it’s not about fighting Brock , it’s dodging top competition the ufc offers. What can strikeforce honestly offer besides 3 decent fighters and a hope to sign more decent fighters? Ufc already has great hw’s and waaay better possibilities than strikeforce. They have a deeper hw division now and not to mention the cast of tuf 10 coming up. Tell me you wouldn’t love to see fedor maul kimbo? What happens if one those 3 hw’s gets hurt? He fights someone twice? Or does he just put on more exhibition matches? I’m pretty sure the ufc has Brock on lockdown with a contract(remember Randy?) so I doubt he can even if he wanted to. The ufc is the big leagues, plain and simple. Why? They made mma what it is today. Love it or hate it, it’s true. You want to be recognized as the best you go to the big leagues, not the minor leagues. Every mma fan who knows his sh!t knows Fedor is the beat hw ever, but he’s backing down from the best. No ands, ifs, or buts about it.That move cost him respect from most fans. The casual mma fan that doesn’t know him well see him as a coward now. If he gets beat in strikeforce he ends up looking real bad and his credibilty comes into question. We know better, but it still makes him look bad.
weve gone through some topics since ive been on here and the only one that has never been answered is how would fedor do in the ufc.i really thought he was going to come after affliction went down but he chose strikeforce.if strieforce dont get back on ppv with the fees they are going to pay fedor they could end up extinct.not many people agree with me on the fact i think fedor has some healthy competition in strikeforce but i really see him having a big test there.my point is if he loses 1 or 2 fights in strikeforce then it goes out of buisness then ufc wont want to mess about with him so we will probrably never see fedor in the ufc.unless he drops to lhw cause i know the ufc and fans could come up with a good 5 matches we would pay some dollar for.
its a shame that the ufc,dream,strikeforce dont get together and on dynamite the new years eve show put there best fighters against each other and split profits,that would be good buisness for them and give us the answers.since pride screwed dana over with sharing talent and the fact ufc is number 1 now i think would stop it.could you imagine the matches
zaromskis vs gsp
mousasi vs machida
penn vs akoi
calvancante vs thiago alvez
a.silva vs cung le
fank shamrock vs tito 2
hansen vs d.sanches
m.manheof vs w.silva
fedor vs brock lesnar
that would be my main card,the undercard i would make would be as good as any ufc event.
First off REDCOAT, you could possibly be the most immature child on this website. Almost everything you say is just shit falling out of your mouth with no real meaning…grow up(mr.ex-con/gangster). Secondly KIMURAFAN, you like to take little stabs at every other person who talks bad about fedor but everyone has thier opinions good/bad just like your bad opinion of tim sylvia being a top 10 heavyweight. I seriously laughed about that one! I will never take away the desctruction fedor caused in the HW divison in PRIDE, but come on and just look at all the other p4p guys out there now. They are “currently” fighting all the best guys in their divisions and moving up to achieve that greatness of p4p status. I really think fedor needed to make the big move to the ufc to up his status. Overeem in my opinion is the best canidate to give fedor a run for his money and if he does beat him where would that leave fedor? It would most likely leave fedor in a position to finish his contract with strikeforce and then maybe to the ufc for less money or stay in strikeforce for the remainder of his career…who knows. There is no doubt he will most likely go down as the best mma HW ever but its the p4p rank that we are all talking about and thats what will be questioned.
Edpo, I like the attitude, but you must have read my post wrong. I said Tim Sylvia was top ten before he fought Fedor dawg. Anybody who thinks he’s top ten now is a fool. Now, simply put, Sylvia was top ten for that fight, and arlovski was the number 2 guy in the heavyweight division right before Fedor put him down. That’s two very solid first-round stoppages over dangerous opponents. As for ‘upping his status’…how can he do that at all? He’s the number 1 heavyweight in the world, how can you ‘up’ that? Last time I checked we were discussing his P4P status, because his heavyweight divisional status has been undisputed for years now. You think Brock is higher up than him? Now you’re making me laugh. He beat Frank Mir who already submitted him. Top ten or not, nobody has ever submitted Fedor, and it happened to Brock barely over a year-and-a-half ago. And as for ‘takin stabs at people,’ if disagreeing with people means I’m taking stabs at them, then get over it man, it’s gonna happen a lot.
Strikeforce has two top ten heavyweights in Alistair Overeem and Brett Rogers, and a top 15 heavyweight in Fabricio Werdum. Those are all credible opponents, certainly more credible than Brock. Sure, Lesnar holds the UFC belt, but that don’t make him number 1 by any means, not until he beats Fedor. I say again, Brock has to beat Fedor to be number 1, not the other way around. Cisco, besides Brock, there really aren’t many top heavyweights in the UFC to challenge Brock. Cain Velasquez? how many fights does he have again? He barely got by Kongo, who should have put his lights out three different times…Fedor ain;t gonna let a dude like Cain clinch with him after a shot like that. Shane Carwin? Who has he beaten? Gabe Gonzaga? Oh that’s the guy that already lost to Fabricio Werdum twice right? Right off the bat makes Werdum more credible than most hws in the UFC. Nogueira? Already lost to Fedor twice. Randy? Would get mauled by Fedor, lost to Brock, and if he loses to Nog, his days as a top heavyweight are numbered. Cro Cop? Always dangerous, but lost a handy decision to Fedor already. Who does that leave?
And as for what Fedor does next after beating Overeem, Werdum, and Rogers, who knows? Maybe we’ll see him in the UFC then. Sure, I’d love to see him fight Brock just like everybody else, and I was very disappointed when I heard he didn;t sign with the UFC, but the contract you sign doesn’t determine your ranking, only your fights do. In the UFC, what would be there for Fedor after Brock? a a few old-timers that Fedor has either beat already, or will thrash (randy Couture) if said guy actually earns the fight for him. Other than that, there are a couple of guys that barely have more experience than Brock and below them nothing but gatekeepers and fodder. Definately not a better situation than Strikeforce. Also, I never questioned Machida’s legitimacy as the top LHW in the world, I just mean that if wins over Thiago Silva and Rashad Evans make him number 1 (which they do), then Fedor is undeniably the man. However, Machida in no way belongs above Fedor P4P, in fact I think it’s hard to rank Machida top 5 P4P just yet. The only guy that arguably has a spot above Fedor P4P is Anderson Silva. He’s the only one who has clearly shown that he can beat guys in many weight classes, with big career wins in three different weight classes. Those wins aren;t all recent, but the win over Forrest is definately a big deal. No one else has done enough to be thought of as better thtan Fedor P4P. GSP just got KTFO barely over two years ago, sure he avenged the loss, but it will haunt him forever. BJ is just now getting back to dominating LW like he should have been doing for years, Faber and Torres got toppled, and Mike Brown has his woork cut out for him. Only Fedor remains, above all the others.
KIMURAFAN
KIMURAFAN when i was talking about upping his status I was talkng about his p4p status. I clearly stated that he is without a doubt the best HW in the world, but as far as p4p he is still number 2 under Anderson on my list. In no way shape or form is brock near the level of fedor and definatley not on the p4p list, but he is still the most dangerous HW out there for him and by not beating him I just cant give fedor the nod for that number 1 p4p spot. Brock will be content just holding that ufc belt. He has no need to go after Fedor because he is in a solid promotion that is going nowhere. I agree with you that UFC does not have many challenging HW’s after brock that fedor hasnt already beat or will beat but at the end of the day UFC would have been the best choice for him mainly because I think there are alot of 205ers that would move up to make a fight with him. Both machida and anderson could take him out but its all talk until it happens. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens in strikeforce. I hope fedor kills all of them and then puts himself where he belongs, but the key is “he’ has to put himself there and not listen or part ways with his shitty management company cause thats the only way it will happen.
Kimura you have a point, to a certain degree. Overeem and werdum are probably on par, if not a little better, than most of the ufc hws. Brett Rogers is still a chump. My point is this, he has three decent fights and that pretty much dries up that well, at ufc he has many more interesting fights. The ufc has most of the top 10 heavies on most p4p list, strikeforce has 2. I would much rather see him go up against carwin, gonzaga, Kongo, couture, velasquez, herring,Mir, and Lesnar, maybe even hardonk. I’m positive he would tear through all of those guys, but it would be great to watch. It’d be more enjoyable than watching him tear through 2 decent fighters and a can and left wondering “now what?”. Not to mention the incoming cast of tuf heavies. There’s also Lashley still out there, who certainly is nowhere near ready yet, but maybe down the line. I just think his move to strikeforce was a horrible idea for his image.
Email me man.. I’m not posting anyone’s business for the public to see. But I’ll show you if you want RB… Least with me what you see is what you get.. I don’t have some made up life like some people.. haha.. If you think I care one bit what some punk ass kid thinks about me, you got things twisted… back to MMA.. I’ve watched Fedor for years and he is the best in the world… If there’s not someone who can whip his ass then he is the best.. that’s it, end of story.. P4P is such BS.. Anderson and GSP sure can’t whip his ass so he is the best.. Brock sure as hell will never beat him..
There you go runnin your stupid mouth again RED maing no sense whatsoever. so basically what your saying is that weight doesn’t matter and we are back to ufc 1. You proclaim your stupidity with your posts and every1 sits back and just laughs about how retarded your views are. If you actually watched mma then you would have realized by now Fedor doesn’t do well with strikers so yes it is a great possiblity that anderson could beat him and brock posses a lot of strength and size for any heavyweight. I dont personally think that brock would beat him but the possiblity that fedor couldnt deal with his strength is always there. fedor is one of my fav fighters of all time but i wont sit here and say nobody can beat him just to say it. fact of the matter is you are full of your own BS Red. Post something worth reading and no im not talking about your juvy record!!
Fact of the matter is I don’t even know who you.. You don’t even register on my radar.. I do know know what I’m talking about.. Trouble with strikers? He’s never been beaten! You make no sense.. I don’t consider the cut loss a real loss.. If Dana is so sure Fedor is a farce then why wont he send one of his fighters over to Strikeforce to beat him??? Oh that’s right he would look foolish when they lost UFC nut huggers are the worst kind of fans..
Kimurafan it kinda came out the wrong way. Machida has alot of fighters to beat in his own division first but I was just trying to say if fedor wiped out the ufc hw division there are a lot of 205ers like machida that could move up to give him a challenge more so than strikeforce. Anderson, hendo, machida, rampage, shogun etc… the question is always “who can beat fedor” Strikfeforce better do all they can to hang on to moussasi because he just walked thru sobral in a matter of a couple mins and sobral took fedor the distance and the kid is a mere 24 yrs. old. Amazing! As far as im concerned with REDCOAT I am new to the site but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out how biased and stupid you are when it comes to your fav fighters. Your that guy who watches mma and when your fighter loses you have a list of 10 excuses why he lost. I just dont wanna hear you cry when cro cop gets knocked out of the ufc….again cause he cant hang with anyone who has somewhat of a wrestling background. Remember it took nasty finger to the eye just to tko mustaffa al turk….remember that you jackass! I will eat my words if i have to, but i highly doubt it!
Jackass? Wigger? That’s the best you can come up with.. The fact still stands I AM The CURRENT and defending 2 time MMAMadness HW champ… You wanna come in here swangin and bangin.. I’ll put my belt on the line against you at 102.. You wanna come up in here in MY turf and stick your chest out at me.. boy, I’ll send you packin.. here’s my picks, all you have to do to win is win more fights than me on the card… Let’s see what you are made of.. Trial by fire.. Saying I don’t know shit?? let’s see about that… Straight wins, no rounds, no by way off.. just straight up.. If anyone’s mad that he jumped ahead of them in the line, be mad at him for flapping his gum’s..
1 Big Nog
2 Thiago Silva
3 Leben
4 Maia
5 Vera
6 Gonzaga
7 Russow
Thats the only ones I’ll bet on.. you got 7 fights to pick from.. pick your best 7…
Theres no need to cut in front of whoever was next to challenge your dumbass but I will give my picks so if I beat you, you can just make a sweet little mental note for yourself.
1 Nog
2 Jardine
3 Leben
4 Maia
5 Vera
6 Gonzaga
7 Russow
Dumbass? then you pick 6 out of 7 of the fighters I picked.. You know how stupid that makes you look… You agree with 6/7 of the fights.. You are fool a and time proves everything.. You just exposed yourself.. Call me crazy or whatever you feel like, but you are another loser who wants to throw rocks at my throne… You ain’t the first boy, and you wont be the last… I’m certified in taking punk bitches to school…
Wow red u really let that fake title go to your head. Edpo21 don’t worry about red he forgets to take his pills sometimes and its hilarious when he does. Why did the site change?
some comparisons…
Fedor has 31 total MMA matches, Overeem has 41.
Fedor beat Ricardo Arona. Arona beat Overeem.
Fedor beat Big Nog twice. Big Nog beat Overeem twice.
Fedor has zero knockout losses. Overeem has six.
Fedor has zero submission losses. Overeem has two.
Fedor has zero decision losses. Overeem has three.
Fabricio Werdum has 17 total MMA matches.
Werdum lost decision to Arlovski. Fedor KO’d Arlovski.
Werdum lost decision to Nogueira. Fedor won two decisions over Big Nog.
Werdum suffered one knockout loss. Fedor has zero KO losses.
Werdum has three decision losses. Fedor has zero decision losses.
MMA math and analyzing records don’t tell the whole story, but they can reveal some truths. Overeem has put on significant muscle in the last several years, and is an excellent kickboxer and knockout artist. Werdum is a former BJJ and submission wrestling world champion, trained by Chute Box in Brazil in muy thai. Neither of these guys are push overs, but neither do they match up particularly well against Emelianenko when their records are compared. Definitely want to see Fedor fight both of these guys, as soon as possible.
Mu Shin.. as always you are the Champ… You got the red beam and no one can dodge what your shooting…
Regardless of what any of you say.. I got you fired up.. Look at how many comments there are about this topic… Your either my friend or you hate me.. One of the two.. The haters are mad cuz I’m the champ, been the champ, and prolly would sleep with their main girl.. That’s just reality… It’s not always easy being the king, lot of people wanna take my place.. Bring it.. I stay ready..
Nice one Red
you pick the fighters first then taunt edpo21 for picking 6 of the 7 favorites what was he suppose to do take the other 7 longshots?
…at that rate you will always retain your paper belt that you curl up at night with
yup your a champ alright
This tread is hitting a dead end…Fedor has nothing to prove in Strikeforce . His legacy will always be in pride affliction did nothing for him after TS and AA got hamered right after. So he stays where he was…. now Anderson, GSP and Machida just keep climbing in the p4p ratings because they are proving themselves all the time… and until they loose like Miguel Torres they fall from the charts and have to redeem themselves.
As stated there is not enough hw’s to challenge Fedor in strikeforce and God help him if he loose to one of them his stock will be worthless..
Man…it’s smoking here as usual. Fedor needs the UFC to solidify himself against better competition than Brett Rogers…up and comer but not the best out and Fedor is said to be the best so he needs 2 fight the best beasts out there. Randy, Nog, Mir, and of course Brock are all in the UFC and that’s the MMA hot spot, period. The real agrument IMO is between GSP, who has CLEARLY fought the best competition between any of the top lb4lb picks. Anderson, who is a victim of his own ability. He has wiped a clearly depleated division out so he’s at 205, which will lead to his exposure or a true vote of greatness. Machida is a figher that I am a fan of but this discussion excludes him because he needs a couple more fights. I do not doubt he will be a lb4lb argument soon enough. My vote is strongly for Georges St. Pierre. He has beaten BJ Penn, Jon Fitch, Josh Koschek, Matt Serra, Matt Hughes and Thiago Silva. Who can boast a more impressive win/loss record against a better list of fighters??? I’m open for discussion…J
overeem has faced better opponents than fedor mu shin.as amazed as you got those stats it makes no difference,ive seen guys make there debut and beat a guy who is 20-3.you did say that overeem has put muscle on and boy have we seen the effects,was that a big part missing from his game.i actually think werdum can beat fedor,the reason is fedor aint going to submit werdum,werdum striking is better and he’s alot bigger and aggression.fedors aggresive and dont like people pushing the pace against him,all he can do is pull out a submission,not against werdum he wonti mdont think rogers couldcontain the pace and sambo skills of fedor but he will make sure fedor will break a sweat unlike big timmy.
Redcoat just because we ended up with 6/7 doesnt make me retarded you moron. we still have that jardine/silva fight that will prove a winnner. What did you expect me to do? pick everyone opposite that you pick? Is that how you got your belt haha, by scaring everyone to pick fighters you didnt pick. DIRTY DALEY I have to disagree with you on Werdum. He probably wont get subbed by fedor but i dont think his standup is better than Fedor’s. If you watched strikeforce the other night you would aw him almost lose to a descent 205er. Werdum got dropped by almost the same uppercut junior dos santos landed on him and ko’d him, fortunatley for werdum he was able to grab a neck and get the sub. To me he still looked a little shakey.
i didnt catch that fight,they dont show it over here,strikeforce that is.i found him very imposing and aggresive in the standup near the end of his ufc days.the ufc 101 picks got screwed with the site change,ill be putting my picks for 102 to be number 1 contender for ufn 19.well there will be a winner.lot of smack talk gone on between you guys,bit of a grudge match for you 2 with your picks.i feel the pressure on fedor is going to buckle him soon.everyone is waiting for him to lose.anderson silva is going the same way,gsp is getting that status about him also,time to get gsp and silva in together.
JC Cota, How can you call the UFC MW division delpeted? Maybe like a year or two ago people thought it was depleted, but now it’s deeper than ever. Obviously Anderson, who is number 1 P4P, stands head and shoulders above everybody else, but there’s more hungry dudes trying to knock him down than ever before. Sure you have Hendo and Marquardt, whom he has already beaten, but I think they can give him just as good a run for his money, if not better, a second time around. Then you have Demian Maia, and you never know what could happen with him, he’s so good with the BJJ, one clinch, one takedown and who knows what’ll happen. Obviously, there’s the 400 lb. gorilla in the room named Yushin Okami, who already has an extremely controversial win over the Spider. Then you have Yoshihiro Akiyama, who isn;t necessarily the biggest threat to Spider, but as the champ, Anderson still has to fight him if he earns it, because even then you never know what could happen. Denis Kang, a perennial contender who’s obviously hot and cold, but when he’s on he’s really on and can give anybody problems. Then there’s guys like Alan Belcher, who would get the tar beat out of him if he fought the Spider, but he’s still a tough dude.
Anyway, back to Fedor. The fact of the matter is that as long as there is top 10, even top 15, heavyweight competition, it doesn’t matter WHERE Fedor goes really. If he beats Overeem, Werdum and Rogers, then he stays number 1, and he keeps his P4P status because he’s still fighting the top guys. As for Werdum beating Fedor, it’s certainly not impossible, and it’s arguably more likely than anybody in the UFC doing it, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Werdum has some beastly BJJ, that’s for damn sure, but if he doesn’t get a takedown with top position, he’s in BIG trouble, Fedor’s GnP is simply destructive. And I would certainly not say that Werdum has better striking than Fedor. Training with Chute Boxe doesn’t automatically make you the superior striker…look at Wand/Cro Cop II, or Wand/Hendo II.
When Fedor does away with the top heavyweights in Strikeforce, then he HAS to head to the UFC to stay on top. Unless by some miracle, more amazingly talented, top heavyweights come out of nowhere, that is when Fedor will have no choice but to go with Zuffa. Until then, he has several great fights, and for those of you who call Brett Rogers a nobody, Arlovski was still arguably top 5 after the Fedor fight, and Rogers kocked him out in 22 seconds…enough said.
dont forget palharez, wand silva, matt hughes and belfort.kimurafan your right that he does have more people hunting him apart from machida,he has to defend off some real nasty competition.id say bj penn has the easier defences due to how good he is.
kimurafan & Daley, I dig what you’re saying but my point is…do u really believe he has a true threat in the middleweight division? Seriously, Hendo was my last hope. I beleive he can beat him but after Hendo…Okami…taylor made style, KO Win for Anderson. Damien Maia ( i don’t know how to spell his last name) is the only other fighter that poses a real chance/threat of beating Anderson Silva. I stand by my guns…GSP-Silva-Fedor-Machida-Penn
Cota all I’m saying is tat there’s plenty of contenders at 185 in the UFC. Do any of those guys pose a threat to the Spider? Not likely. I think Maia (you spelled his name right), poses the biggest threat, but it’s like this: Maia either gets laced badly very quickly, or he can take Silva down and possibly put a grappling clinic on him. Also, good call Daley, I completely forgot to mention Vitor and Wand, who are both legitimate threats to anybody. However, I think Palhares is a training partner of Anderson, so I don’t know how that would work.
And Cota, I just can’t justify ranking GSP above Fedor P4P. Anderson is one thing, but Fedor has recent top ten victories in his division, just like GSP, and he has never been legitimately beaten, let alone destroyed in the first round less than three years ago. Avenged or not, GSP’s loss to Matt Serra still hurts his P4P status when there’s a guy like Fedor who stomps everybody.
I totally have to agree with kimura on that jc cota. There are definite threats at 185. I believe if maia can take out marquardt, he poses a serious threat. I dont think anyone would beg to differ maia has hands down the best jitz game in that division and after vitor hopefully destroys the lately not so impressive rich franklin he will be the next serious contender. As for p4p i got anderson, fedor, and then gsp. Fedor has visciously destroyed his last 2 opponents in the first round, while gsp has taken out top level competition he just hasnt been “as” impressive especially his last 3 fights. Alves, bj which was a 4th rnd stoppage that would have gone 5 if his corner didnt call it and jon fitch which he also failed to put away. Im not saying fedor has never gone the distance but the big one for me that holds gsp back is the serra tko and for that the nod goes to fedor who hasnt lost period
Hell yeah edpo I think vitors gonna maul franklin. If you look at their fights vitor is a pretty bad matchup for ace. Franklin almost always comes up short against superior strikers, I.e. Anderson and lyoto. Vitor has nasty ko power, very quick hands, technical boxing, and the kicks and knees to compliment that. Furthermore he has a great ground game and killer instinctm bad news for ace.
Vitor will murder Ace and KO Anderson.. Dana doesn’t want Anderson to leave undefeated in the UFC.. that’s a bad business move
No doubt Belfort is a good fighter, and will give Rich Franklin a tough match.
As far as beating Anderson Silva, let’s take a look at the list of guys who have beaten Belfort: 1-2 to Randy Couture, 0-2 to Alistair Overeem, 0-1 to Dan Henderson, Chuck Liddell, and Tito Ortiz, and 0-1 to Kazushi Sakuraba, the “Gracie Hunter”. Five of these eight losses are by decision, which I think actually speaks further to Vitor’s strength, but it reads to me like Belfort has trouble stepping up to the elite level when he gets the chance. Anderson Silva is undoubtedly among the most elite of all MMA fighters, regardless of weight class, and I’d be really surprised if Belfort found a way to get by Silva at this point in Silva’s career.
Opinions are one’s we all have here…that’s a good point about Serra. I just wanna see Fedor fight all the Best Heavy’s…Anderson Silva has cleaned out MIddleweight Division no matter what your opinions are…he most likely will leave the UFC and box so that’ll be interesting to see
Okay, maybe I’m getting a little obsessive in my old age…
Mr. Daley, I respect your opinions, as you are one of the most consistent posters here on Madness. You asserted Overeem fought better opponents than Fedor, so I’m sitting here wondering if that is true.
Okay, so maybe I have too much time on my hands sometimes late at night…
So here’s what I did. I researched the records of all of Fedor’s opponents, and all of Overeem’s opponents. This is what I found:
I excluded all draws and NC’s, just to make it simpler. Strictly won/lost records of all their opponents.
Fedor’s opponents totalled 438 wins, 240 losses, for a winning percentage of 64.6, meaning his opponents won 64.6 percent of their total fights.
Overeem’s opponents totalled 452 wins, 260 losses, for a total winning percentage of 63.4 for Overeem’s opponents.
Incredibly close, but statistically, Fedor enjoys a very slight edge in terms of the winning percentage of the guys he has fought.
I would say that this research would argue that the caliber of the opponents they have fought is virtually equal, and to me, that would give Emelianenko a definite edge over Overeem, as plain and simple, Overeem has been beaten, Fedor has not. He was cut in a tournament style contest in Japan by an illegal elbow and could not continue, which in most cases would have been a No Contest, but was ruled a loss in the context of the tournament he was competing in.
What do you guys think?
shit mu shin,i dont know where you get this research from but it’s impressive.true then,fedor has faced stronger opposition.cant argue the facts.to be really honest i just dont know how fedor does it,he looks like he could make ww with a bit of cutting and he beats guys as big as timmy,coleman,randleman.mirko,arlovski and even choi.that choi match he was getting manhandled and he just pulls it out.fedor is living proof that fighting is about tactical moves.the thing that makes me say he will lose in strikeforce is he gets dominated in some of his fights,not like gsp,anderson silva so i just feel one day he is not going to pull the rabit out of the hat.
Who’s the greatest of all time and they say you, you!!!! and I say nah, nah!!! that title belongs to the late great Dj Scew!!!!!
Wow, that’s a really interesting way to look at it Mu Shin. What’s even more impressive in your figures is that Fedor has actually fought a significantly lower amount of fights, and yet his opponents still have the better win percentage. Overeem’s record is definately a spotty one, but I would still have to say that he is more proven than the majority of the UFC’s heavyweight division. Add Fabricio Werdum, who could arguably submit almost any other heavyewight on a given night, to the Strikeforce mix and you have some interesting match-ups for Fedor. Mu Shin, you also make a good point about Vitor having difficulty with the more elite-level competition, but I would have to think that he was in a very bad place mentally and emotionally for a few years, and could quite possibly still be there. We know he’s capable of greatness, I would just like to see him show it at least one more time, and I’m confident he can get past Rich Franklin. As far as Anderson is concerned, I don’t think anyone will beat him anytime soon, and that includes Vitor, I certainly can’t disagree with you there.
Daley, I know what you’re saying about the way Fedor’s fights go, but it’s been a really long time since Fedor has been really pushed like that. He wsa not getting dominated by Choi by any means, you can tell he was perfectly comfortable. Othter than that, I can’t remember the last time someone legitimately put him in trouble. People lately have been eager to say “Oh! Arlovski was outpointing him the whole round! Fedor was losing!” To those people I say that they should take a closer look at that round. I would say a grand total of two or three of those short jabs and punches actually connected with Fedor’s head. Fedor had great distance and some decent head movement as well, and we all know what happened next.
i think when someone becomes unbeatable like that you want to cheer and root and pick who can beat him,everyone wants the boys in the ufc because they belive theres more chance of that happening in the ufc.that aint going to happen.strikeforce will have to sign top hw if he runs through the main 3,i stand by he will lose to 2 of them,werdum,overeem,rogers.he will probrably beat rogers but there is no way he will beat all 3.what happened to pee wee herman,he was on a 12 fight win streak and im sure he was at strikeforce.mousasi could even go up in weight.my point is he dont need to go to the ufc to get beat,if he beats all of them then shit he has to go to the ufc.strikeforce will collapse due to non ppv’s anyway.
Does anyone here see Rogers as a legit threat to KOing Fedor…he can’t beat him on the ground. He would have to KO him to win. Opinions aside, I’m pumped to see fedor fight more often!!!
The biggest threat to Fedor currently fighting in Strikeforce is Fabricio Werdum I would think. Fedor i superior to Alistair Overeem in most aspect of the fight, and Overeem has always had trouble coming out of such big fights on top. Brett Rogers has heavy hands, but we don’t know if he has anything else. He is not nearly experienced enough to be ready for what a guy like Fedor can throw at him, and he may have heavy hands, but he’s hardly displayed very technical striking. Fedor is a decent boxer who can throw a variety of strikes and has beaten every heavy hitter that’s been put up against him. Werdum is the most dangerous, but ONLY if he can somehow manage to get Fedor on his back. Werdum surely has a great guard, but this is MMA, not BJJ, and guys who have excellent guards get destroyed all the time by guys witht solid top-games, and solid is an understatement when talking about Fedor’s top-game. If it goes to the ground, I see Fedor pounding Werdum’s face in, or taking a lopsided decision. I don’t see any of these guys beating Fedor. No way is Fedor going to lose to 2 out of 3 of them.
Also, I think it’s too early to say whether or not Strikeforce will be hurt due to not having events on PPV. They are on Showtime now, and I’m sure that more people are regular subscribers to SHowtime than would buy any single Strikeforce PPV event. That said, they have fans who are subscribed to Showtime already, they have fans that will likely subscribe to Showtime sooner or later to see the events, and people who are subscribed to Showtime already, but don’t know about Strikeforce yet, but they will, especially the people who subscribe for Showtime’s boxing programs. They stand to make plenty of money from this deal in the long run, it’s all a matter of how thtey market themselves. They have to be smart about it.
Mu_shin you are right you do have too much time on your hands especially for a newly wed,,,I thought we talked about this before ha-ha
If Your stats are right ,,,(I don’t have the patience that you posses)
The jury is still out that Fedor fought superior fighters he was at the top of the food chain and was challenged all the time as the feature heavyweight,
Overeem was getting creamed by light heavy weights like shogun and his record started to improve as he put on more muscle and in my opinion weaker competition.
In the end my money would be on Fedor no matter what the odds
Now go to the jellybean jar …
Best fighters in the world today
1. A.Silva
2. L.Machida
3. not sure
4. not sure
5. may be Fedor
Thriller what are your reasons for having those guys at the top?. Red here’s the email filmnoir1226@comcast.net
Thriller, I admit I fail to see the logic in your picks. I mean, sure, P4P rankings are subjective at best, and even abstract, but how can you rank a guy in fifth place with nobody in third or fourth? And I’m sorry, but there’s no way Machida is above Fedor, not yet, not for a while. Machida has been very impressive, but he hasn’t exactly conquered the 205 world yet. He beat Thiago Silva, who’s wins before that were hardly against the best of the best, and Rashad. Rashad was a great win of course, as was Tito before him. Seriously though, Other than that all he’s done is managed not to lose. That doesn’t say you’re the best, it just means you aren;t the worst and possibly haven’t fought the best. DOn;t forget a couple of years ago BJ took this guy to a decision in a HW fight where Machida weighed 220 and Penn weighed about 192. And throughout that fight, Penn was punching Machida right in the face. We say no one has been able to punch Machida in the face, but just watch that fight and it’s plain to see. IF and WHEN Machida gets by Shogun Rua, then we can talk about him as a top 5 P4P fighter, but even then he won’t be above Fedor.
I sent you an email..
Did u know bj was the last guy to land a power punch on Machida? Interesting considering bj’s a lw, which is why he’s one of the best p4p. The top 4 fighters p4p seems to be consensus(in no particular order) Anderson, fedor, gsp, & bj, with everyone debating on that 5th.
Cool red. Machida needs more fights against top 10 competiton to be on the p4p list with that said i don’t think he’s near the top 5 yet maybe top 10 on some lists. I thought the bj fight was in 2004 but i could be wrong
Yeah Cisco, I remember that. I didn’t know BJ was the last one to do it, but I remember Machida rying to back-pedal like he’s known to do and BJ chasing him down and making his head roll back with big punches haha. BJ really is a very underrated striker. I would have said that before 101, BJ might have fallen to 5th place P4P behind a guy like Torres, but now that BJ handled Kenny, and Miguel got smashed by Bowles, BJ is certainly top 4 once again.
I agree with BJ being in the top 4 but i don’t agree with his hands being underated…he’s a great striker, excellant boxer. At 155 he’s close to unbeatable. Torres definately lost his spot and was exposed for weakness in his overall game…the Lb 4Lb argument will go on forever. Curious…who do u guys think has faced the best competition over the past 2-3 years???
Not for nothing but I don’t think Miguel Torres should be dropped off that list for one loss! The guy has gone so long without losing and faced everyone in his division. That dude has two losses in over 40 something fights! That’s hard to do in any division. Joe Rogan said that little tidbit during one of Machidas fights.
I don’t like anyone besides my friends.. Rage I sent you an email and ur still a hoe!!!! Kimura, Mu Shin, Pun, Shark. Dirtry D, and Cota.. Ya’ll my people! !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tB_y30IHsE
I don’t give a fuck about your cousin or your sister babies daddy.. WHAT.. this is my stompin’ grounds.. I”ll be beat you both up… already.. Big Nog will win though..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYyA1O_hBVk&feature=player_embedded
Besides Raging bullshit and his hoe ass cousin.. (jump in any time and start talkin shit) does anyone wanna see Big Nog vs Couture? that’s prolly gonna be an epic battle.. Two of the best ever!!!!!
You wanted to try to push me over the edge? hmm I guess you lose.. Game Over.. Not today….
I’m not locked up in here with you. You’re locked up in here with me…
Ha Red you get that line from Watchmen? That was the best part of the movie. Yo Cisco, I’m definately not hating on Miguel Torres, dude’s the man. He defnately dropped a bit in rankings though. P4P top ten? Sure, but he needs to win a rematch with Brian Bowles if he ever wants to get back to where he was. You never know, Bowles might turn out to be the Mike Brown to Miguel’s Urijah Faber. Right now, Miguel Torres is either the nmber 2 or 3 bantamweight in the world. Bowles is obviously number 1, and Masakatsu Ueda could arguably be ranked number 2 because many people would have ranked him there before the Torres/Bowles fight, and he’s still winning, so it’s conceivable. But yeah, Torres is sick, and I’ll definately be rooting for him in the rematch, Gracie Jiu Jitsu all day baby.
Cota, for the top guys, if you wanna go back the last 2-3 years it’s a areally, really tough call. I wanna just go ahead and say either Spider Silva or GSP for obvious reasons, but a lot has happened in that time span. Also, are you asking who has just faced the tougher competition, or are you asking who has also beaten the tougher competition? Obviosuly in the last 2 or 3 years, no one has really fought and beaten as tough competition as the two guys I’ve already mentioned, but if you wanna talk about guys who consistently face the toughest competition, then look no further than the 155 lb. division outside the UFC. This is the only division that hasn’t been almost taken over by Zuffa. Most of the top contenders at 155 are abroad, and face each other all the time, winning some and losing some cause they’re all so good. It’s like a never-ending cycle of winning and losing. Joachin Hansen beat Shinya Aoki, who beat JZ Cavalcante, who beat Vitor Ribeiro. Tatsuya Kawajiri just beat JZ Cavalcante, but lost to Eddie Alvarez who also beat Joachim Hansen, but lost to Shinya Aoki. It’s crazy out there for those guys.
Kimurafan…that’s impressive MMA IQ. I need to look up the rest of the 155lb fighters not contracted by Zuffa. All I wanna say is Couture vs. Nog is gonna be a great, great battle of 2 of the best, most resoected WARRIORS our beloved sport has ever seen. Speaking of MMA IQ, I’m picking Randy and I really wanna then Jardine & Silva hook it up…neither wants to or can afford to lose so it’ll be hard fought to say the least…Red, ur crazy but u got love from me
Red if all that shit you said was directed towards me then im laughing my ass off right now. Saulo and xande riberio need to train mma then come to the ufc those guys are badass jitz players.
what the hell happened 2 Vinnie from last season…his BJJ was SICK…???
His BJJ was good.. Unfortunate for him it didn’t transition well into MMA..
Damn, I know that’s true…I liked him and saw he was on a fight card for some “Round the Way” promotion…bummer, he should have learned more striking
Cota, I actually didn’t even mention a couple of other 155ers like Mizuto Hirota, Satoru Kitaoka, and Eiji Mituoka. Of course, there’s always the Fireball Kid himself, Takanori Gomi. Sure he went through a rough patch over the last year, but he had a badass KO against a Shooto champion not too long ago and he’ll come back strong, I know it haha.
Yo Rage, Xande Ribeiro has been training MMA off and on, and has like a 2-0 record I think, fighting for Sengoku. He might have more fights than that though, so don’t quote me there. Ironically, he’s been beating dudes up with kickboxing a lot, just wait till a fight goes to the ground haha. I hope he fights King Mo soon, I’d love to see him choke Lawal unconscious and shut that dudes big-ass mouth. I don’t know if you guys have heard all the crap he’s been spewing, but he’s won like 4 or 5 fights against nobodys, he’s scheduled to fight Mark Kerr of all people, and all the sudden he’ talking like he’s the next big thing. Personally I think it’s a joke that he couldn’t finish that one dude at Sengoku, I think it was his lat fight. Now he’s talking about a “beef” with Rampage, like he’s earned a fight with him and calling him a bad example for black people after that video where he says the N-word like every two seconds and Page didn’t say it at all. He’s talking about how he’s gonna help train Rashad for the Rampage fight, HA!!! What does Rashad need his help for? Then he was talking in an interview about how he knew who would be a bad match-up for Fedor, that was another great joke. I can;t wait to see him get KTFO to be honest.
Oh Rage, Saulo is a bit too old to make a big come-back in MMA at this point. He’s a BJJ legend, but his MMA resume didn’t go too well. Yuki Kondo gave him the beating of a lifetime. He had the ground-game to school just about anybody, but it turned out he coudn’t take a punch to save his life unfortunately. It’s a shame, because his ground-game could’ve put him on track for a Demian Maia-esque run in the sport.
I’m a fan of King Mo.. I think he’s funny.. He’s got the power, skill and charisma to be the next superstar of MMA..
king mo needs to make his way to a bigger promotion than sengoku,its a good promotion but if he’s talking bout whupping rampage’s ass he needs to leave sengoku and join dream or strikeforce.
Its no surprise that you’re a fan of “King Mo” Red…haha!!! I personally would love 2 see Page KO this fool
Daley, I think if Lawal wants to ever be considered a legit contender, he needs to get out of Japan, because there are no good LHWs there anymore. Xande Ribeiro doesn’t seem to be taking his MMA career seriously, and he’s the only other recognizable name in that weight division I can think of competing in Japan at all right now. The fact that he’s fighting at M1 shows isn’t great either, I mean they just plain don’t seem to have any regard for getting credible match-up for their fighters on a regular basis. I mean, he’s gonna fight Mark fucking Kerr…really? And he’s talkng about helping Rashad, a former UFC world champion, train for Rampage, another former champ and top five 205er? He needs to get his chin checked for real if you ask me, but anyway he needs to AT LEAST go to Strikeforce to start being more credible, but the problem is that I think that, while Lawal does pose problems, a guy like Gegard Mousasi would handle him.
he still is a fresh new face,shit i know people from small shows with more fights than him,his reputation he’s got from i dont know where has put him in a position where do i go big and try and make it full time in the big shows without alot of ring experience or should i stay in smaller shows and learn more about his self in some wars and take the chance of rewening his reputation?bigger shows mean more money and better trainers so i say make the jump now.one of the reasons brock is so good is because he is big,good wrestler and i do belive a bad ass but also he had money to bring in who he wanted and train not having to work for a full year.good chin and bank balance and a willingness to learn can help you so lawal has been handed a nice bit of rep.mark kerr is fighting for the buzz he used to get and for his pride,he is going to be so determined and i think he is a nice match for lawal to see more about himself.
Mark Kerr is in a really, really sad spot right now unfortunately. I don’t know if you’ve evere heard of the documentary called “The Smashing Machine,” but it’s about Kerr’s troubles and downfall, it’s really depressing. I think it’s mostly do to drug abuse and that dort of thing, but it’s still a shame, he was on his way to being the man. Personally, I would think that, even though I’m sure Lawal would beat Don Frye, he was a more competitive match-up than Kerr at this point in time. I really don’t even wanna see this fight.
Daley, you’re right, Mo has gone right to a big show in Sengoku, and if he tries to hit up Strikeforce or the UFC, it’s gonna be too early. Sure, some people, like Cain Velasquez or Brock Lesnar, can come right in to a big show and win. However, the big difference there is that’s at heavyweight, which is a much weaker division than light-heavyweight IMO. At Strikeforce, he might pick up wins against guys on the level of a Mike Kyle or a Trevor Prangley, but if he goes up against Gegard Mousasi, he’s in wayy over his head. That’s not to mention the UFC. He might win a fight against somebody like Jake O’brien, if that guy’s even still in the UFC, but he’d be in trouble once he got to the level of a Jon Jones who is a talented wrestler in his own right, but with a kickboxing game that could definately beat-up a sub-par striker like Lawal.
King mo isn’t ready for the ufc yet like kimura and daley said he needs to go to strikeforce 1st and beat some guys like babalu, mike kyle, and trevor prangley then come to the ufc as either a hw or lhw i’d like to see him in either division. Im not that big of a fan of his but he’s got good wreslting and that seems to be mma 101 so far with the way so many wreslters get belts.
King Mo and Rampage been talkin shit to each other.. sounds like a fight to me… Mo is a beast.. Don’t call him anything else until he loses…
-Sensei
Page has always been one of my favorite fighters.. I like his boxing “lay a mother fucker out” boxing style… I think Mo could pose problems… he talks about black on black crime with Rashad.. but would he say that to Mo? I think Mo’s level of “don’t play that shit:” is slightly higher than Rashads… Call me insane but I think King Mo is bout them pay checks and chin checks….
yeah i got the smashing machine,very true and very important anyone taking them should watch that.im sure he’s been clean for a while.i watched kerr get smashed by mustapha al turk.kerr with his experience and we dont know if he’s in good shape,if he is will test king mo.
Yeah Daley, the Smashing Machine was a great watch, even if it was soo depressing. I mean, Kerr may come in with the best conditioning of his career for all i know, but I doubt that’s gonna happen. After this fight, Lawal needs to take on some relevant competition, or I’m not gonna start taking him seriously. Maybe if, like I said before, he went back to Sengoku to take on Xande Ribeiro…that would pose problems for both fighters, but Lawa might get caught, Xande is that good.
agree with you on that kimurafan,xande would give him the best fight and the toughest of his career so far.mark kerr had one fucked up crazy chick on that smashing machine.i do like the way ufc ban fighters who are taking steroids or pain medication before a fight unlike pride letting him get more beat up and more hooked till his life nearly ended.id like kerr to win this fight,the guy deserves up’s.speaking of rampage i remebered danas video blog where tiki gnosh is suppose to fight mike van ase dale,was that just pissing around joking or we gunna see tiki return?he will get whupped again.
I watched Kerr at YAMMA.. yeah I was unfortunate enough to be part of that debacle.. he was fat, flabby and out of shape and lost.. That’s the down side to taking roids for a long time.. once you stop taking them you go to shit…
i never knew he was on roids,well im not suprised.
Yeah I would have to say of all the fighteres I think have done roids just by looking at where their careers went and what they look like now, Mark Kerr is definately up there. I would have to say Mark Coleman goes up there too. He lost his hair, began losing fight after fight after the UFC started testing again, and all of the sudden ended up in PRIDE and was winning fights again. That says a lot right there. He’s definately managed to take better care of himself in the long run than Kerr though.
Daley, I seriously doubt we will see Tiki or Van Arsdale back in the Octagon anytime soon, if we do I’ll be shocked. I still can’t believe Baroni is back, but if you look at the circumstances surrounding him, it makes sense. I mean, I don’t think he really belongs in the UFC at this point, but Dana seems to want to pick up anybody he can with name recognition before Strikeforce can. He also made good with Pat Miletich after who knows how long, mainly because Miletich was commentating for Strikeforce. Everybody was really excited about Miletich commentating for Strikeforce, but now he’s back with Zuffa. If I had to guess, I’d say Frank Shamrock might be next. Who knows, we might see Robbie Lawler back there too.